The Return of Wati

Wati Grossman

The San Francisco Fashion Designer dishes on life, millennials, motherhood, and modern fashion

In its heyday, Wati Design could be found in children’s boutiques around the globe. It was one of the few American brands that matched the stunning collections of European children’s clothing, with its rich pigments and beautiful silks and velvets trimmed with intricate embroidery. Mothers lamented that Wati did not design for them, that their girls would soon grow out of the lavish outfits, many of which have been passed along to siblings, cousins and friends. After ten years and her own children nearly grown, Wati has shuttered her children’s line and, much to our excitement, has launched a women’s capsule collection.

Wati was brought up by intellectual Indonesian émigrés in Melbourne, Australia, where she and her identical twin sister Yanti attended law school before following their dreams. For Wati, that meant leaving behind the security of a law career for the Fashion Institute of Technology in New York City. Soon after, she landed a job at The Gap in San Francisco. Next came Levi Strauss, where Wati found herself designing the clothes that helped to democratize fashion in the USA. In the world of 2017 and anything goes it’s easy to take “business casual” for granted and even lament the distance we have gained from suiting up. Regardless, it was Wati and others behind the scenes pinning, drawing, dreaming and manifesting a sense of equality into the clothing that changed our lives in the 1990s.

Wati is once again making a difference in the world of fashion, with the launch of Wati, for women. Wati sat down for tea with me recently at the Four Seasons and shared her thoughts about millennial fashion, men’s fashion, child rearing, creativity, travel, and feminism.

FrancescaBay: You got your start designing men’s clothes and helped change fashion in our society. Can you talk a bit about men’s fashion, especially since they rarely get the attention women get?

WATI: Yes, it’s something I delved deeply into and designed for many years at The Gap and Levis, and with Levis it was the dawn of business casual. At the time many men were wearing suits to the office. If they weren’t as formal as that, it was a dress pant, a nice shirt and a tie. That is what was standard. But in the early 90’s there was this push for business casual, so on Fridays men were allowed to wear something a little more casual, like a khaki pant and a check shirt, or a solid color like French blue or whatever. And they were allowed to wear a more casual shoe. But that was only on Friday (laughter). It was quite safe. Glen plaids, various tartans. We were trying to push the envelope. Now we are pulling away from that. In Silicon Valley all these millennials are wearing hoodys and sneakers and there’s an artsy vibe to it and it’s more of a rebel type of look, it’s definitely each to his own now. But back then there was a definitely a code. And in the Western culture men have a formula and they pretty much have to adhere to that. I do bemoan the fact that American men don’t relish menswear as much as I would like, but conversely, it’s okay. I don’t want to impose an expectation that people should be more formal when they don't want to be.

What inspires you?

WATI: In terms of inspiration very often what inspires me is comfort. What will look chic but comfortable? I am not a high heels person. But some women are and some women have to be, they have to look very chic and put together. For me, if I can help it, I will always wear flats such as sneakers or ballet flats. In the winter I wear Blundstones. I like anything practical that will take me anywhere, especially if I am travelling. So there’s a practical side to me that is a very important part of my aesthetic. If I were American I would call myself a cowgirl, but I am not, I am a nature girl in the sense that I want to be able to take the cats to the vet, make a visit to the horse, Oh, I actually have to exercise her! So I just want to be ready.

Your hands are beautiful, even your hands are incredibly chic!

WATI: No! (laughter) I am not one for manicures, maybe pedicures. My daughter Talia is always saying, Mommy you should do a manicure it looks so nice and why don't you do flowers? And I’m like, No! Because I am so practical that it only lasts for one day and then it’s gone. I like to keep my nails short and maybe they buff my nails and shine them up, but I prefer not to have any nail polish on.

What’s hot now?

WATI: Being able to mix and create an ensemble that is of unknown origin. And putting your own stamp on things. There is definitely more of a boho vibe to young people’s style. Travel is influencing the accessories that young girls are wearing, like the Pura Vida type bracelets that young girls are favoring, and I think that’s really groovy. I think it's indicative of an open mindedness and of young people being more well-travelled. And the Internet making the world small, so there is a global aesthetic. Not many people twenty years ago, fifty years ago had that access. Back then you had to be a specialist or curator in African tribal interiors, say, to access them. But now influences come from everywhere. You can be an American artist but have inspiration from any culture and I really like that. I think that’s exciting.

Do you have fashion advice for young women?

WATI: You can go to a vintage store and find an amazing cotton dress that takes you back to the 1970s and be a Coachella girl.  That’s really hip now, this rediscovery of festival culture. I think there is something about that recycled look. I took Talia to this thrift store in Berkeley and there were these flowy, very Fleetwood Mac type of dresses that you definitely would have seen with clogs and platforms and big hair in the early to mid seventies. I am just hoping that girls will rediscover the idea of vintage dressing and mixing with modern, such as an eclectic high-low, but incorporating vintage. That’s how I dressed growing up. It was a combination of my mom’s things, of things I found in thrift stores, some things I found in an expensive boutique, some things I found at Target. And I love that because it's your style. It's not something that is prescribed. What you're wearing has a special experience or memory attached to it. And it's not something you are copying from someone, and it's not a style "club". What is increasingly relevant is ethical fashion.

When you look at fashion today, where do you think we are going as a society?

WATI: I wonder whether people are looking for something more bespoke, something that is unique, that is not going to be seen on everyone. They want to be the best version of themselves. People don’t want to be clones. I felt this way when I was a kid but it was not common at the time. Back then everyone wanted to look preppy, or look like Madonna or look like a super model, it was wanting to be a member of a club in a way. I hope that we are headed in a direction where we are increasingly cherishing the unique.

Who is your favorite designer?

WATI: I have always loved designers like Dries Van Noten. Dries is heavily influenced by Asian culture. He’s Belgian, and he’s influenced by Indonesian culture, Southeast Asian cultures, batik, the craftsmanship and the embroidery, hand woven elements, and fine art as well. I have always seen him as an icon. And it isn’t just because of his incredible attention to detail and his creativity, it’s also because he does not have an haute couture line. He has always been ready to wear. For him it’s a philosophical decision. It’s about a democratization of fashion, making his fashion, his designs more accessible to everyone. 

Democratizing Fashion…I keep hearing this. The dress rental business seems to be booming. What is shifting in high fashion?

Haute couture is sadly dying. I think the democratization of fashion is only going to increase. People don’t want to spend their money on something that is only going to be worn once, maybe twice if you are lucky. What I love about Kate Middleton, the Duchess of Cambridge, she will wear the same thing twice, three, four times. In the olden days that was unheard of. It’s this idea of not being wasteful.  Emma Watson does it too. It’s this idea of re-wearing, or even wearing something made from recycled fibers. I think people need to have more of a global responsibility. Our resources are finite.

What do you think will happen in the future to boutiques and department stores?

WATI: I know that brick and mortar stores are suffering; they are getting a big beating from online businesses like Net-A-Porter, for example. But I feel like they will always be there. There will always be a store like Neiman Marcus to go to because there is a part of all of us where we want to have that experience of walking into a beautiful environment. And going into a store like Colette in Paris, or even Fortnum & Mason in London is an experience. And we love taking it all in, all theses exotic beautiful things that you just want to like gaze upon and appreciate. And the windows! Les belles vitrines, the beautiful windows in Paris. That, I believe, is going to take a while for all of that to go away because the experiential is still going to be important. And as a traveller you want to experience this. You want to be able to walk through the streets of London and New York and see gorgeous windows. I think there will always be a place for it, but less so. And yes, rental dresses and such will only increase because it's allowing access of beautiful creations to the every woman.

What is “Prescribed” Fashion?

WATI:  For example, in France you have BCBG, the bon chic bon genre, a style of dressing that is very formulaic. It is a style subculture of the Parisan upper class. The classic khaki trench coat, the striped t-shirt, the collared shirt, the slim jeans, ballet flats, the Hermes scarf and the Hermes handbag, the Louis Vuitton handbag. It’s a code, like, I belong to a club, because look how I’m dressed. And I feel like no, no, no! Let’s get away from all that. Let’s all be individuals because we are all unique in our way and that is something I really truly believe in. It is something as a parent I have tried to teach and inculcate in my kids, this idea that you are unique, that is a good thing! And it is not cool to be bandwagon or derivative in any way. You need to be comfortable in your specialness, especially if you are half Asian, half Jewish, half Muslim, half all these different things. You have to be: this is who I am and I am comfortable and if you are not happy with me that is your problem. It’s not my problem. So I think the more kids can really think that way then they will find their true calling. Hopefully they will be in touch with themselves. Self-awareness is key. 

As a Northern Californian I believe in everything you are saying about individualism. But…I am a Francophile too, so I feel torn because I love the beautiful and safe French classics, they are a comfort. What is it about France that mesmerizes us fashion wise?

WATI: France has always been the place that you look for in terms of guidance and culture, good taste and good manners, refinement. I studied French and two of my cousins were born there because my uncle worked at the Indonesian Embassy in Paris. So we grew up speaking French with our cousins and spending time in Paris. We got a little window into French life and culture from visiting them. And I have to say I have been a bit of a Francophile all my life, too!

Do you think we need to break away from the idea of France as the barometer of good taste or the fashion capital of the world?

WATI: I think its interesting because in Italy and France and many countries the young kids look to the USA for guidance for their style and they will acquire what they think is really groovy here. For example, Polo Ralph Lauren style dressing and Ivy League preppy dressing originated here on the East Coast at the Ivy League schools; the collared shirt and the khaki pant, and the boat shoes, you know, that Brooks Brothers way of dressing. Many countries definitely they look to us for that. And the Japanese do, too. It started with the clothiers like LL Bean and Brooks Brothers & J.Press. They were dressing Ivy League men. There’s a really interesting book called Take Ivy by a Japanese photographer Teruyoshi Hayashida who in the 1960s went around to all the Ivy Leagues. He photographed every aspect of Ivy League life and the sports, walking around campus, and it’s really become a bit of a bible for students of sartorial history. The Japanese have taken preppy and Ivy League dressing to an art. It's how my father in law dresses and how my husband dresses. It’s that button down shirt, the pinpoint oxfords, the khaki pants, and that's really what we took to become business casual when I was at The Gap. But definitely, I think that if we are influenced by any particular culture that's okay. If we are inspired to dress like a Frenchwoman, that's okay, its not harmful.... If you look on Pinterest, you can be so inspired by the world! 

I can't wait to look at your Pinterest account! What will I find there?

WATI: I don't look at what’s on the cat walks. I will not look at the images from the shows. I look at the street style. I am most interested in the people who attend the shows, who are milling around waiting to go into the shows in Milan, in Paris, in London, in Copenhagen, in Seoul, wherever the fashion week is. What I am intrigued by is how people in the industry and on the periphery are dressing and how they are combining their sense of style with what’s en vogue. They've got their cameras over their back, and their backpacks and their bikes or whatever it is — they are real. It's real.

What happens when clothing being made in factories in Italy, for example, move to China or India or someplace offshore? What is it we lose in the manufacturing process?

WATI: So with moving offshore sometimes there is bound to be some decrease in quality whether it be workmanship or fabrication. Compared to if something were made and handcrafted locally, say in Milan or Paris or London. And then also just the oversight during the manufacturing process, we lose that. And things like whether the colors don't hit the mark, or the stitching is poor quality. But what we gain is something made for a lower cost and that is therefore more attainable to people. When I’m having something made I need to know how many stitches there are per inch. For me it makes a big difference. I need at least twelve. Big stitching? Bad quality. So for me that’s the number one thing I’m looking at. I’m such a stitch person. Stitches Per Inch. 

Grown women who can afford good clothes —being advertised to by teen models. Thoughts?

WATI: I don't like that. I think that's the worst thing about the fashion industry. It’s basically the fashion industry and Hollywood giving us images of young women and impossible standards of beauty to live up to. It’s ageism. For modeling agencies to say the most beautiful girls are 14 to 16 years old, because of their luminous skin, there is something weird and screwy about that. And we need to change that. It’s almost like maybe I need to start a modeling agency or something and recruit older girls. They pluck them really young and that is our aesthetic and its impossible. And then to see them plastered on billboards and all over social media, it is a losing game and it’s really objectionable. Even someone like Gigi Hadid, she used to be full figured and she was real and that is what was so great about her, she was the girl next door. And now she’s lost a lot of weight. She has succumbed to the pressure of being like a stick and looking “better” in clothes. It's a real pity. And what it tells our girls is, you have to starve yourself to look good. There should be more of a prevalence of women models who are in their forties and above. If I was doing a really big collection I would hire models who are forty or fifty years old and beyond. Advertisers of a brand should speak to us. It is insulting to be only presented with the youth culture.

Now that you are designing for women, what age is most popular with your brand?

WATI: Any one of any age because I’ve had young teens and girls in their 20s buy some of my coats especially, because they just love the boho vibe. But mostly I’d say women of our age, forties and fifties and above.

Mochila bag. At Wati Design. $170  

Thank you Wati!

—Kimberly Wainscoat